Wing Chun vs Choy Li Fut – Chinese Martial Arts Tested

Wing Chun vs Choy Li Fut – Chinese Martial Arts Tested

We have
Cai Li Fo
Choy Li Fut, I believe it’s called
And, this is Wing Chun
Wing Chun vs Choy Li Fut
Choy Li Fut
and Hung Gar
Hong Jia
And Baji
And, of course, Sanda
Seem to be, the four
Main styles of Kung Fu
That could stand in the ring
so let’s see
Cai Li Fo
Versus Wing Chun
Wing Chun guy, of course in blue, throwing Chain Punches
He’s not understanding
You don’t lead with chain punches
Because you’ll get hooked
The guy’s gonna step
Out of your chain punches and hook you
Which is what Cai Li Fo guy’s doing very, very well.
You don’t lead with the chain punches
The chain punches, you use
To finish them
The entry, the bridge
Is something else
The chain punches are like
After he’s kind of dazed
They never seem to understand that.
[Background music plays]
Anyways, so
Just watch
Wing Chun guy is going to keep going linear and he’s going to get hooked
by Cai Li Fo
So this is
Very likely Sanda rules
Again, another hook
Wing Chun guy ate another hook by Cai Li Fo guy
Wing chun guy, I think he attempted to throw
A punch that was not linear
You might as well jab
with that lead hand, Wing chun guy
He’s not really putting it out to gauge distance
Because he’s not jabbing with it.
Just jab with it
Oh! You see that? Cai li fo guy
Did a right kick and then punched
So that was it man
Um…I think
In this match, we could see
I’m trying to see if we could potentially slow it down.
In this match
We’re able to see some kind of
weaknesses of this
particular wing chun, which seems to be
characteristic of every type of wing chun we’ve
seen so far
This is in hong kong, btw.
See like
The Wing Chun guy’s charging in
And then
You just kind of use your footwork
to step of our his way and hit him
Hit him with a more angular, a more
You know, nonlinear type of punch
Like that, right? You see that.
Like you see that?
so, I think
When was this recorded?
Um…this was recorded
Oh, this was, I don’t think this was…
was not recorded recently
But this was re-uploaded recently, so…
I don’t know
We can clearly see the differences
between, and I would say the inferiority of
At this point, let’s call this the majority interpretation of Wing Chun
Okay guys? Let’s be fair.
This is, how this guy in blue is fighting…
I would say he’s better than that Ding Hao guy
He’s better than Ding Hao
This is, the…
Sort of the majority interpretation of how Wing Chun is supposed to fight.
And the Choy Li Fut guy
He’s leading with his chin
His hands are not up, but still
Just the fact that he knows how to hook and side step
He’s winning the fight
Okay, that’s all I’m going to say.
fight Commentary breakdowns, what do you guys think?
Leave your comments below. Bye Bye!

100 thoughts on “Wing Chun vs Choy Li Fut – Chinese Martial Arts Tested”

  1. You can't judge an good technique and martial art by the bad timing of the inexperienced practitioners. All those videos… that is not the way you use chainpunching ffs… no setup or lateral movement whatsoever… there is a reason you sidestep when you work on that chunk of wood ffs… Ah nevermind… It's pointless… TMA are as good as dead anyway, everybody is on the MMA bandwagon now and I can't even blame them…

  2. Jerry, if you're interested in seeing choy li fut in the context of mma cage matches, I recommend you check these two fights out (links pasted below). The fighter, Brandon Chew, is a student of Grandmaster Wong Tat Mau. Wong teaches Choy Li Fut (and practices judo too) and won many full-contact competitions when he was younger.


    Website of Wong Tat Mau with information about Brandon Chew:

  3. The "chain punch" is used mainly in close quarters and once the opponent's hands are trapped.
    The "weakness" is not in his system. But rather his implementation Jerry…

  4. I've noticed something strange every time a wing chun guy fights full contact. Almost every single one of them throws the same punch at one point. I think it's a result of them trying to throw the wing chun-style, vertical-fist punch… but they try to throw it full force. Almost like a vertical haymaker.

  5. Choy Lee fut fighters are supposed to be pretty good , they actually have full contact matches. But there is not much footage of them fighting

  6. Choy Li Fut fighters dominated the lei tai and early sanda scene. I find it odd that Choy Li Fut is not well represented in China and America in full contact sparring. It is a common scene in other countries that they do send fighters out regularly to compete.

  7. My best guess is that chain punching is just what works for these guys in their various light sparring experiments before we see them on video. They're probably finding that their defensive 'chun, which requires superhuman reaction times and/or a very predictable opponent, isn't doing anything for them, but up against other inexperienced opponents, they're getting some luck with chain punching because at least they can initiate that at will, and inexperienced people can be overwhelmed by it. That's true of most martial arts though. People find their "money" moves and just constantly return to them, it's just that not all of these moves are created equal.

  8. Wing Chun isn't a fighting style any more than the English alphabet is a language. It provides a framework and set of principles which are used to develop one's own personal fighting style-usually by adding in the most useful elements of other styles. Bruce Lee is the perfect example of this. Modern WC doesn't seem to get this. I've trained WC and Choi Li Fut. Choi Li Fut can be used to fight by itself if you're good at it.

  9. Do you have any contests involving UK practitioners (all your 'wing chun vs. _' contests seeming to be held in China) ? As remember someone as far back as second half of the 80's [who went over there]; saying that the standard of wing chun in China was "absolutely ATROCIOUS !"

    (Tho on the other hand, I do know of a good Chinese MMA fighter with Wing Chun background: ie. Yi Long – there could be more, as don't really follow MMA competition that much. But when I saw him fight I thought, "this must be the next Bruce Lee !").

    But seems to be division in interpretation of the popular wing chun phrase / motto, 'attack is the best form of defence'. The bad schools seem to interpret this as, "just get your punch in first"; concentrating on attack only and forgetting about any defence [which will far from work against a larger opponent, for example: who will have much greater reach] !

    The good / workable interpretation being that all the attack motions can also be employed in defence. A simple example that Western boxers use: 'leverage stop', as utilized by George Foreman (using a punch to stop an oncoming punch: connecting wrist / forearm against wrist / forearm). George Foreman came back to reclaim the title at age 45 – a previously unprecedented accomplishment.

  10. El de rojo se mueve más como un boxeador, esa guardia y movimientos de cintura no son de kungfu.

  11. Strictly speaking from a stylistic point of view, at least the wing chun guy is trying to apply wing chun. The choy li fut man is not even attempting to use typical choy li fut movements. As a Southern style, choy li fut – if applied literally from its forms – should have characteristic wide horse stances, rather stationary (with the traditional story that Southern China being more mountainous and rugged terrain required a wide base), long range punches, and swinging punches.

    It all goes back to whether the stylist is actually using the style which they represent. A muay Thai fighter fights using muay Thai movement, a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu player uses the techniques they have been taught, even karateka will use the typical fighting style of a karateka. But many kung fu stylist totally abandon the techniques that they have practiced for hours, and hours, years and years. Why is that (I ask rhetorically)?

    Is it because the techniques are ineffective? Possibly. Is it because many kung fu techniques are unnatural (e.g. kneeling stance) and counterintuitive in actual fighting? Hmmm… I mean no disrespect to kung fu stylists. I've studied traditional martial arts too and fell into the same trap where I would practice and practice the techniques and forms but then resort and fall back on kickboxing techniques during a spar because they felt more natural and effective.

    The counterargument someone would say is, "You were not patient enough".

    Ahhhh, not true because if you were to ask me to grapple, I would use the techniques I have learned from Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and use them the way I have been taught. I won't abandon BJJ techniques if a fight goes to the ground. I would rely on it because I know they work for me. That's the difference between pressure tested martial arts styles, and ones that rely more on set techniques, forms and katas, that are not practiced dynamically nor pressure tested against a moving opponent.

    In defence of some kung fu styles (pardon the pun), I have a theory that perhaps hundreds of years ago, the kung fu styles looked different and were practiced and applied more dynamically but somewhere down the line they were formalized with preset forms and people started interpreting the forms far too literally to the point that they became pedantic. The wing chun pak sao (inside palm block) is no different than a boxing parry in theory. They're the same. The difference is that in boxing it is applied very simply and effectively. You don't need it explained to you, ad nauseam, on how it should work. You learn and drill, drill, drill. In wing chun, the pak sao is formalized with too many contexts about when it is used. It is overly complicated.

    Perhaps the original founders of wing chun, be it Ng Mui, Yim Wing Chun, founder of White Crane, or martial artists of "the red boat opera" – whichever story you want to accept – meant the pak sao to be simply like a boxing parry but then someone came along and overcomplicated it.

  12. I currently study Choy Li Fut kung fu. Our style of fighting is known for circular movements and striking in angles rarely linear.

  13. Something else I see in a lot of Wing Chun guys like this one: he was so focused on punching/trapping his opponent that he forgot he had legs. He threw only one kick the entire bout, he was catching almost every kick going in, and he had no lateral movement. So the guy then ends up telegraphing to his opponent the whole time – throwing punches way out of range and just dashing in, hoping something will land and desperate to do the chi sau he was trained to do.

    The chi sau regimen doesn't prepare Wing Chun people for encounters like this; it's only good for building muscle sensitivity/memory in your parrying technique, not to simulate the reality of a fight. Blue guy probably thought this was the case, which could explain why he was being so overly-aggressive. Sparring is so important, but no WC school I know of really teaches it.

  14. Yo that's something I say all the time funny first use regular updated moves blocks Congress and once you stun them then look cool and finish him Hollywood style.😋😎

  15. Funny considering Wing Chun was meant to be the counter for styles like Choi Li Fut (which was the dominant style in HK when Wing Chun arrived btw).

  16. @fight commentary breakdown.
    What do you think about the Wing Chun system by itself? I Know There so much bullshit practitioners who never had a fight or never did sparring before.

  17. Good wing chun should be formless. Too many Wc guys bust their asses (and in turn their heads) trying to “look” like wing chun as it’s trained in drills. The art is a training method, it’s meant to enhance what you naturally have and help in fighting. Wu sao/mun sao are concepts not fixed hand positions yet so many attempt to fight having their guard in this manner. If this configuration was so efficient why haven’t boxers/thai/mma fighters adopted it? Because it DOESNT WORK. The only time this kind of guard “seems” to work is when it’s Wc vs Wc due to the complimentary structures. The first time I sparred a boxer upon seeing my classical Wc guard he warned me I’d get hit a lot unless I changed it. In my arrogance I told him I’d do fine. Within 30 seconds he had to catch me from falling to the ground after I ate a right hook… Part of the problem is the METHOD of training the art, most don’t spar properly, have no clinch game and are badly conditioned. Wc has all the weapons in Thai for example but lacks the intensity/realism of Muay Thai training. Consequently you can get a classically trained Wc guy who has been training 10 years who gets wrecked by a Thai fighter (providing he trains at a good gym) with maybe only a years training. I’ve trained wing chun for a long time and due to training with more of a combat athlete mindset I’ve evolved and can make my art work but the caveat is that to the uninitiated what I do doesn’t “look” like wing chun! My teacher Alan Orr gets accused of this all the time but like me he trains all the classical forms etc but has a deep understanding of the arts underlying principles/mechanics. These are the things you take to the fight, not the drills and chi sao.

  18. As a Wing Chun guy myself, I never understood why anyone thinks opening with Chain Punch is a good idea.

    The way I see it, Wing Chun guys should fight like Boxing Hall of Fame and Heavy Weight Champ George Foreman. Reach out to touch the opponent's arms, then control the fight with our frames and sensitivity from all that Chisao we do.

    Chain punches should be used to smother an opponent who shells up. Without gloves, it can penetrate shells through the center, or remove the opponent's line of sight so we can use our Mook Jung Wooden Dummy forms to open new angles. (Almost like Lomachenko)

    Also, I don't understand why Wing Chunners keep chasing with the chain punches. They're already out of range! Use the chain punches in bursts… not extend it for no gains…

  19. Wing chun's chain punch is cool but its not really viable and you pretty much can only pull it out when you are already having an advantage, but regardless it always looks cool when someone succesfully landed the attack like when anderson silva did it.

  20. For all practical purposes, when you have one man who practices wing chun and another who practices choy li fut, what you end up with is 2 men who don't know how to fight. Their martial arts is nothing more than a cheap container in which to place their big egos.

  21. I had a friend who taught Wing Chun (3rd generation Yip Man). I was just a hack kickboxer. The theory was that Wing Chun just turns the body to intercept outside line attacks, and then it's an impenetrable mesh of forearms and elbows. In practice, though, he had a hard time with lateral footwork and incoming hooks. None of the theoretical concepts he talked about materialized when we boxed.

  22. What you said, that Choy Lay Fut, Hung-Gar, Baji Quan and Sanda are the Kung-fu styles that are actually work its true, but Wudang, Xing Yi and Bagua are good too. Wudang styles are good maybe better than Hung-Gar.

  23. The way wing chun guys rely on chain punches is hilarious. How do they fail to realize that they can't generate power with just their arm? Fighters know that you need to use your hips, legs and body weight to generate any sort of effective power. Somehow they've been convinced that they know how to fight… a decent amateur MMA fighter could probably beat both these guys, at the same time.
    Love your content man. I appreciate that you shine a spotlight on the bullshit that's out there in the martial arts world. You're probably saving people years of wasted time and the embarrassment/injury in a real fight when they finally find out that they have no idea what they're doing. Keep it up!!!

  24. I mean… The Wing Chun guy did better than most of his trade, which means he didn't kiss the canvas in the first minute. So…

  25. Red shirt had the right gameplan. Unfortunately, awkward and unrefined mechanics behind those hayemakers prevented him from landing anything with real authority

  26. He is not so bad than, the others. The other forget their wing chun after one punch. He keep it, the problem he don't know how to use it

  27. I think the most effective Chinese style is Sanda. The techniques for catching strikes are pretty damn useful. Hell, current women's champ, Zhang Weili, has a heavy Sanda background.

  28. Here are a few other Choy Lee Fut Fights that are on my Channel.

    This is my lineage in China

    My student here is with the red stripe on his shorts. 3rd fight of the day for him, the only one he lost.

    Choy Lee Fut in black vs Wing Chun

    My Student in Tank Top in a friendly sparring match of Choy Lee Fut vs Wing Chun/Bagua Kuen

    CHoy Lee Fut (Yellow shirt) vs Kick Boxing in CHina

    Choy Lee Fut vs Muay Thai

    My student vs Grand Student Choy Lee Fut vs Choy Lee Fut

    My student with the red stripe shorts

    Choy Lee Fut vs Muay Thai

    Choy Lee Fut vs Muay Thai

    Choy Lee Fut vs Muay Thai

    Choy Lee Fut vs MMA fighter

    Vintage CLF (red) vs Wing Chun in Hong Kong

  29. FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE CHOY LEE FUT STYLE: Choy Lee Fut is a MIXED MARTIAL ART that was created in 1836. It is made up of 3 different styles to form one. The styles of Choy Lee Fut are Choy Gar Kung Fu, Lee Gar Kung Fu, and Fut Gar Kung Fu.
    here is a little history of Choy Lee Fut kung Fu of my lineage:

  30. They 'ré both stuck in their styles trying to make it look like it should instead of moving efficiently, they don' t have footwork, they don't defend, they don't set-up strikes. They just throw hands in their own styles, wishing something lands. Any avarage level boxer would beat them EZ.

  31. I believe all styles have their perks, they all have specific training that make them unique. But they spend 100% of their training time doing stuff that represent 10% of what fighting actually is… Most combat sport ignore those 10% and spend 100% of their time training useful stuff for competition. Though I believe those 10% can make a big difference if you have a good base.

  32. I've trained at multiple Wing Chun schools, 2 of which was in HK. In total i've trained this style for about 2 years. They all have one thing in common. Maybe 90-95% percent of the time, you do soft drills, sensitivity training, reflex training etc. There is next to nothing in terms of sparring and athleticism. You could go to classes after a while and come out of it without breaking a sweat. It saddens me to admit that they just do not want to spar even if the students want it. Saying that ''we are not ready'' or something along the lines of that. Nobody was expecting full contact spars every training session but there wasn't even any real warm ups to begin with. No running, jumping jacks or anything of the sort to get ready. Maybe some active stretches but that's about it.

    In comparison to combat sports styles which im involved in (bjj in particular). They make you run lap, do squats, jumping jacks, push-ups and all that from the get go and you just go straight into rolling(sparring) in about 3-5 sessions. The difference is night and day. Same with the other guys who train other combat sports in the gym like boxing, muay thai, kickboxing etc. They all go through the same process. While TMA styles like Wing Chun still do soft drills and reflex training all day. I get it, i've done it, it has it's place. Wing Chun has applications. But you just simply cannot base your whole battle plan on it. The results are the same every time. Every time!

    This is not the first and probably not the last time someone will talk about how Wing Chun is not working in its current state because it's flawed. It has big holes in its system but ''Sifus'' just refuse to admit it or simply too lazy or ignorant to accept it and grow. They just want some complacent hobbyist to make money and live in their small world. I still love Wing Chun as a style, it's meta game and intricacies but that's it. It will keep failing in it's current state and mindset. If you are serious about learning how to fight, consider some type of proven combat sport.

  33. You need to study. Your whole knowledge of wing chun sounds like you got it from watching the ipman movies. I'm not trying to be rude. Please do yourself and viewers a favor. No person in their right mind finishes with a chain punch btw . It's ridiculously impractical. Oh yeah also this and others are not interpretations of wing chun. They are clearly not following basic concepts and have obviously not even learned the footwork. Just idiots thinking they gotta test it out, test what ? The ability to not use a morsel of proper technique. You wanna talk interpretation , there's a leaniage that tucks their arms lower, there's one that shifts on a different portion of their foot. These garbage practitioners and your basic lack of what you're talking about is just really stupid.

  34. Wing Chun was never meant for the ring. It's a close range style. but how can you stay close when the other guy is moving and evading?

  35. The Choy Lee Fut vs Wing Chun fight here was part of the Hong Kong Martial Arts Invitational. Primarly it was Choy Lee Fut vs Choy Lee Fut. But the popularity of this new union brought in fighters from all over. This Choy Lee Fut vs Wing Chun fight I'm posting is from 2016

  36. These two arts are opposites and long time rivals. The simple fact is that CLF is right and Wing Chun is wrong. For example, this is CLF's version of Chain Punching, it is trained with resistance and with free sparring effectiveness in mind:

  37. I learned wing chun from a Taiwanese man and most of these guys only use the "short fist" aspect. Shit dont work at all at range.

  38. They must not have access to real MMA fights through the Chinese Internet or else you would think they would learn a thing or two! They look like children out there trying to slap each other in the face! What do you Jerry? are they oblivious or are they stuck in their ways?

  39. it reminded me of sparring the kind that you see when you're a little kid outside watching two kids Spar in the yard they were both pretty quick that guy leaving his chin out like that he was daring the other one if the other one had any real skill he would have knocked his ass out hard neither one of them had power unless they were just goofing around he can throw all the hooks in the world but that hooked on me nothing if it ain't got power

  40. That’s the problem with most wing chun guys there school needs to update and have more real combat situations while sparring. Wing chun guy does not know how too work angles at all.

  41. so where's d famous chi sau practiced so much in WT schools?? nonexistent in any fight. therefore useless training & waste of time/practice. fighting to win is mainly about offense. defense will not win a fight. yip man used it to keep students entertained as d basics for beginners in WT is boring, long & tedious.

  42. Ironically, one of wing chun's strengths is to 'receive and angle'. Anyway, this was not an interpretation of wing chun by the fighter, but a misinterpretation of it.

  43. Back in the 80s, there was a Choy Li Fut teacher who was also a full contact fighter in HK. I think he did a series of videos with Panther. This video gives credence to the idea that CLF was useful in the ring.

  44. the kid in red is closest to a boxer but they are both going around with their chins in the air, a decent boxer would put them both asleep one after the other, they do nothing to move their head as they step in like jab on the slip, kung fu i think could be made so much better if it employed a GOOD boxing coach, not a kung fu coach that has had a look at boxing and thinks he understands it !

  45. maybe its because i dont do kung fu but i just dont really see any style with these, i think if i got two decent scrappers off the street and through them together it would look similar to this, no disrespect intended , im just saying what i see

  46. Choy Li Fut is the most effective system that I've seen for fighting more than one person. [It] is one of the most difficult styles to attack and defend against. Choy Li Fut is the only style [of kung fu] that traveled to Thailand to fight the Thai boxers and hadn't lost. -Bruce Lee

  47. This is from a 2018 clf organized invifational tournament started in 2011. My clf school was invited in the early years to participate. They usually have gear on because its an amateur tournament. It got expensive travelling to hk every year for the tournament so we kinda stopped going.

  48. yup. everything wrong…wc guy tries to enter from long range with shortrange-follow up attacks.
    U can only hit chainpunches if u are 1. Close. 2. outside. or trapped his hands with an opening attack. or lowerd his guard with an kick.
    Otherwise u are open for counter hooks.

  49. It's annoying that the video is sped up, but I'm happy to see that the kung fu style I took is getting some representation!! CLF Is great, because it's a long arm system and combines shaolin with northern and southern kung fu from Grandmaster doc fei wongs book. I met the man once he was very soft spoken.

  50. The way I see it wing chun is a self defense martial art that trains someone to react as quickly as possible to an ambush attack especially at extremely close range where there is no time or space to punch with a swing. The way the power is generated also means that you are relying on skeletal alignment more than raw muscular power, meaning you can still use it for self defense deep into old age. Self defense arts need to work at any age not just when you are in your physical prime.

  51. Any decent level amateur or professional boxer would of thrown an overhand right and took his chin clean off. But at least the wing chun guy gave it a go.

  52. And…that's why Bruce Lee stopped doing only Wing Chun and learned many different martial arts, retaining what was useful, rejecting what was useless.

  53. 0:44 the chain punch is the only technique in all fighting styles that allows you to get counter punched in the back of the head.

  54. This is my take on it. Wing Chun works only when there's contact. That's when it comes alive. But it has no outside game. I personally train in boxing as well, actually I've boxed longer than I've done wing Chun. To me, they're just two parts of a whole. Before theres contact, use that jab and footwork/head movement. Try to get an angle and close in. Then you switch to the inside tactics of wing Chun. Its subtle but it's there. Bottom line is if you ever see anyone who is obviously a wing Chun guy in his training stance (yes that's a training stance, not a fighting stance), he's going to get his ass kicked. Remember, on the outside there is NO wing Chun. Use boxing or other system that has an outside game. Wing Chun is for in fighting only. It works well for that but there are no good entry techniques in the system. I can see the strengths and weaknesses of the system. Boxing isn't perfect either, but together I've found it very effective

  55. To this day, I feel any type of Kung Fu shouldn't be done with the gloves. There's too many grabs, fist and finger work in these styles and trying to fight without using them isn't cool. True, they're not out to kill anyone, but some of the techniques are just sick. Take Biu Ji in WC, Chin Na or plum fist, those are some mean techniques if used correctly. I think if these guy didn't have the gloves, it would've been a better fight. And last, ( no disrespect to WC people ), this WC vs MMA & ???? needs to chill. Let's face it, if Bruce Lee would've been Hsing I, Hapkido, Kyokyushin, etc, before creating JKD, there wouldn't be all this good/bad talk about WC, jmo.

  56. If you jump to 11 mins on this you will see a decent demonstration of Wing Chun in tournament vs a karate fighter. The Wing Chun guy is a student of Gary Lam (Student of the late great Wong Shun Leung) notice his non linear footwork and squared stance similar to Bas Ruten's. Wong Shun Leung was a good boxer before doing Wing Chun and his style is probably the most aggressive

  57. It will always take time to master a system. Some of us in wing chun did not realise that before going to fights that is why they fail.

  58. I've said for a while now that chain punching focuses on speed so much that they sacrifice power. I'd like to see someone stand still and let someone chain punch them and see how many it takes to get knocked out. Just as an experiment.

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