Grounded Podcast #1 w/ Dean Lister: Solve Life Problems w/ Jiu Jitsu. How to Find a School.

Grounded Podcast #1 w/ Dean Lister: Solve Life Problems w/ Jiu Jitsu. How to Find a School.

this is the grounded podcast episode
number one with Dean Lister and me Jocko
willing why do I need another podcast
this is a good question you and I’ve
been talking about doing a podcast for a
while I’ve talked about doing other
little marginalized or smaller podcast
things part of this is because of the
expectations and the standards of the
Jocko podcast the standards of the Jocko
podcast are are high I will say I don’t
know what I’m no better way to put it
you know I’m talking about some very
specific things it strays off
occasionally but I’m talking about human
nature I’m talking about leadership I’m
talking about leadership and human
nature through the lens of war and
through the lens of atrocities and
through the lens of human struggle and I
will always be talking about those and I
will always be interested in those
things but those things are not my only
interest in the world
so other interests that I have are
really varied from I mean obviously at
the top of the list is jiu-jitsu I’ve
been interested in that for a long time
all kinds of fighting surfing music you
know nature shooting just getting into
archery there’s just all kinds of
different things and I meet all kinds of
people in all these different arenas all
the time I learn a lot from them just
from talking to them just from talking
to other people and I was saying to you
earlier that you and I will sit there
and talk on the mat we get done training
we’re sitting there talking for 20
minutes sometimes it’s a half an hour
sometimes 45 minutes about things that
I’m curious about that I want to know
about that you have knowledge on or that
you’re asking me a question about
something that I have knowledge on and
I’ve I look back at those things and I
think man I wish I would have recorded
those conversations because there’s good
knowledge there to learn the other thing
about this is I get that knowledge
without reading anything without
studying anything without doing a
massive amount of preparation but just
by talking and asking questions and
listening so
I think other people’s can can learn
from that as well and I’m not gonna do a
bunch of preparation like I do for Jocko
podcasts because I go and I honestly do
not have time it’s physically impossible
to do that much preparation but that
doesn’t mean that I should not try and
get word out there and trying that
doesn’t mean that you and I don’t still
have conversations that transfer
knowledge you know back and forth
between us and it’s the same thing with
all these other things that I’m
interested in so anyways what you and I
were talking about for for 10 minutes
maybe 15 minutes after we trained
yesterday what should we call it what’s
a good name for this podcast yeah and we
were throwing around a bunch of stuff
and then I forget who said grounded I
think it was your idea so grounded is
obvious tie to jujitsu
because jujitsu is utilizing the ground
as a tool which is something I know
we’ll talk about maybe not today but
when you start talking about how you use
the ground as a weapon against your
enemy it’s it’s it’s a pretty profound
way to think right there’s something
that you and I are both standing on
you’re gonna use it as a weapon against
me and I don’t know how to use it if I
don’t know that so there’s that there’s
also staying grounded right people talk
about hey that person staying which is
basically a way of saying that a person
is staying humble hey that person said
oh that person is staying grounded you
know that person’s grounded it’s like a
positive thing to say it means balance
it means base it means you have roots
right that person is grounded it means
there’s a foundation and also means that
you know everything’s connected like
when you say oh all the lessons in this
book are grounded in right so there’s
there’s also like a a concept that
everything is connected and that there’s
a thread that ties to all things and as
I say all the time if you know the way
broadly then you see it in all things
and the things that we things that we’re
definitely are talked about I mean you
always bring up examples of history of
warfare of different generals and combat
leaders and world leaders you always
talk about those people you either tell
me something you asked me a question so
even the fact that the main subject of
this podcast isn’t the same as jaakko
podcast it’d be a little bit lighter but
there’s no doubt in my mind that there’s
connections and that there is much to be
explored and much to be learned and much
to be talked about
so Dean Lester what’s that man what
number podcast were you on of Jocko
podcast 60 something 160 I think I
matter in 160 something so Google Dean
Lister Jocko podcasts if you don’t know
anything about Dean you’ll find out
Dean’s past life or his current life but
his past
what achievements a few things yeah in
the field of mixed martial arts of
jujitsu of fighting of instructing
that’s a wrestling of Sambo there’s a
lot of a lot of things going on there
yeah and of being a mutant so jujitsu
this is this is sort of my definitely as
I’ve explained many times this is the
thing that ties a lot of threads
together and initially taught a lot of
threads together for me in my brain as I
the more I understood you Jitsu the more
I understood everything in the world is
that too bold of a statement is that too
broad of a statement I like it it’s the
truth it’s the actual truth I put things
together because of because I started
training jiu-jitsu because I trained
jiu-jitsu because you and I were
training for 3-4 hours a day trying to
murder each other it taught me about
leadership it taught me about combat it
taught me about war talking about
talking about everything and so let’s
talk to Jitsu a little bit not everyone
changed trains jiu-jitsu should everyone
train jiu-jitsu hmm you know I thought
about this Joe Rogan talking about
comedians the only way to know if you
could be a comedian is you just have to
I can try of course not everyone is
going to be a good comedian but I think
anyone could benefit from learning how
to talk and for other people so yeah I
don’t I don’t think everyone would um
continue to train jiu-jitsu but if
everyone tried it it would benefit them
in some way I think so any kind of a
risky or a behavior that’s kind of can
make you nervous or push your boundaries
I think it’s gonna be beneficial for
that person in the manga run you know
that saying when they talk about
jiu-jitsu like a hundred people start
how many people make it to Bluebell how
many people make it to purple belt and
then by the time you get to black belt
what do you think is one in a hundred
maybe less maybe less than animals yeah
it’s weird to me that people cannot do
jiu-jitsu anymore yeah isn’t that kind
of weird to you yeah
that is I think that some people get
let’s say of 100 and let’s say 40 get
the blue belt a lot of those will be
like hey I got my title I’ve done
something in jiu-jitsu but the rest is
gonna be a lot of hard work I’ve got my
belt I’m out solo of those 40 you might
get 15 that will stay maybe 25 will quit
at blue belt that’s interesting so you
have 15 left that are continuing past
blue well maybe it’s 30 depends depends
15 30 pairs on the on the where you are
in the world
what age group you are your level of
interest of course but you get you get
to a level where when someone gets past
purple usually they’re kind of staying
with it now and if they stay they keep
doing what they’ve been doing they can
get to black so the biggest filter would
be white to blue and then blue to purple
mmm the two big filters in my opinion
for me I was just up with uh I was doing
some archery and I’m going hunting soon
and and one thing I was talking with
John Dudley Andy stump about is that
there’s like a primal part of our brain
that exists and for me so like Jiu Jitsu
I completely feel it well it feels
totally totally
innate in my personality to want to
engage in combat with another human I
think that’s pretty normal now
I when I said that made this statement I
said all men feel like a prime and then
Andy stump pointed out to me that that’s
not necessarily true and then there’s
some men that do not have that and if
they were around three or four hundred
years ago they would be terminated right
they like how could you survive right
because because someone like you would
come along and just take whatever they
had and kill them yeah okay maybe a
thousand years ago it’s three thousand
years is true I mean I think that people
that always found something to do but
the ones who got things done were in
those days is stronger now it’s there’s
so many ways to to measure value things
are just different now but there was
something inside inside the psyche
that’s true right and then and I found
the same thing cuz we were up at a 3d
archery target challenge so your 3d
means you’re shooting at like
three-dimensional targets of animals and
yet you know you’re walking through the
mountains and walking and for me it
started reminded me of being in the SEAL
Teams and being on patrol especially as
a young seal when we used to still do a
lot of work not necessarily in the
desert but in the woods and and I was
thinking that for me again it seems like
an innate part of my brain is when
you’re on put your like okay here you’re
gonna go out into the woods and you’re
gonna go catch dinner that’s what you’re
gonna do you’re gonna go hunt for dinner
and that seems to be a totally innate
like you can feel it firing oh yeah this
is what I’m supposed to be doing no
matter what no matter who you are on
this planet you have ancestors that’s
what they did they got Spears or rocks
or bow and arrow and they want more guns
and they went out and they got dinner
they hunted dinner
they went out sometimes and they fought
the other tribe like these to me seem to
be innate parts of us and that’s one of
the things that I think jujitsu sad
well because a lot of those activities
are being I’m not saying this should all
be encouraged because I’m not saying you
should go out and want to want to kill
other men specifically but but that any
desire to do something like we’re
talking about in the psyche you can
actually replace that with jujitsu yeah
and they’re actually that’s a really
good point part of the innate thing is
not just a killing other men part of the
innate thing is having other you know
having a gang having a tribe having a
band of people that you’re not trying to
kill but that you’re actually on the
team of and hey we’re part when you’re
out hunting with a couple other guys
it’s like yeah we are working together
to make this happen when you’re on the
jujitsu matter you train you train
together and there’s there’s bonds that
are created through the hard training
and that’s yeah that that’s another part
that people can you don’t necessarily
have to have that in modern society
right in modern society you don’t
necessarily have to have people that you
rely on 100% because if someone bothers
you you can call the cops and you can
kind of be you know you know really you
need to have a gang or a tribe that you
are close with but in jujitsu you’ll end
up with that just the physical nature of
it and the the hard work nature of it
like like anytime you do trying things
with other humans you start to get you
start to develop a bond with them that’s
what boot camp does that’s what that’s
what Airborne training does we’re all
gonna get in this aircraft we’re all
gonna jump out of it and we’re gonna
form a team because we all have a shared
a shared struggle same thing with two a
days on a football team or on a
wrestling team you know like oh we’re
gonna train really hard this summer and
we’re gonna form a bond Roger yeah and
so you and I have been training together
for a long time so those are some good
reasons to start to Jitsu now I don’t
want to make jiu-jitsu sound like a a
knuckle-dragger yes sport yeah because
and I noticed this especially with kids
the smart little kids they get good at
jiu-jitsu and they end up liking it a
because they could they they immediately
see how they see the power but they see
that hey I’m small but if I learn this
knowledge then I’ll be able to beat
people that are bigger than me you
almost have no choice but to learn the
technique yeah if you’re a strong kid or
strong individual you definitely want to
learn the technique but you might be
able to skirt by a little bit just by
being strong so interesting the the kid
who is not born strong has to find a way
to do it better and therefore that’s his
only way to grow is that is that why
like in wrestling the weight classes the
smaller weight classes are so filled
with more kids and the heavier weight
classes or is that just cuz like in high
school there’s just less heavy weights
there’s just less heavy weight humans
there’s also less 95-pound guys in high
school so you use it though 140 145 in
high schools packed I noticed like with
the seals the guys the guys that were
just big dudes they usually didn’t
gravitate towards jiu-jitsu because they
already had the actuality of being able
to smash people because they were big
and then their own perception that they
could smash people because they were big
right like hey I would honey that I’ll
just smash you yeah yeah that happens a
little more I guess because you don’t
get the big guy he might be a little
more used to getting what he wants and
talking like that you also get the small
guys don’t want to do it real bad to get
some payback the big guys know you used
to be when we started training you or
174 yeah yeah that’s true and you were a
you were a killer at 174 I’m thinking
about that now I mean you were skinny
yeah yeah it was nineteen years old yeah
yeah I used to cut to 173 so I probably
was probably pushing 180 no question
what are you probably skinny do anyways
yeah but but Dan you would murder people
I’ve had a few good days
alright so jujitsu why should what other
benefits you get from jujitsu other than
self-defense aspect I mean it’s
incredible you get functional strength
you actually get functional
strong it doesn’t do so much to increase
muscle size but it gets you functionally
strong I know guys I know men who are
professional power lifters that in the
weight room would just be kind of
embarrassing if I was next to them but
but they can’t move on the ground with
me and I did is like stuck like like I
turn on and flip on its shell I can’t
even move so there’s a lot of functional
application to the movements in
jiu-jitsu it engages your mind it opens
up a whole new side to your psyche that
you see brand-new to yourself that you
didn’t know was even there self-defense
as I mentioned and you said this in a
better way that the fact if you cannot
physically hold me here and I can leave
that’s a pretty solid beginning to learn
martial arts hmm I can decide to leave
or stay or I guess I could maybe choose
to hold you here if I wanted to that’s
that’s a pretty good deciding factors to
learn self-defense yeah that’s a big
point of contention with people that are
what do you call people that are all
into debating you know different martial
arts do they have a name I don’t know
but there’s people well like the people
that use the term multiple attackers all
the time what if you’re up against
multiple attackers and it’s they got
like those kind of those kind of
statements and that’s what a knife
here’s a knife or you do yeah you know
what the guy with a knife is gonna suck
against anything yes a problem for
anyone I I try to clarify that in the
disciplines freedom field manuals is
when you learn jujitsu a self-defense
you’re not learning jujitsu as
self-defense so that you can go to the
ground and finish someone that’s not why
you’re learning it the the initial
reason for learning it is so you can get
up off the ground protect yourself if
you go to the ground and then if you and
then you can get up off the ground and
get away from somebody so yeah that’s
clear super-important you look in the
UFC I’m using some classic examples
Chuck Liddell of course he’s versed in
submission but he was hard to take down
you take a punch and he can knock you
out so if you if you are if it’s very
hard to take that person down and they
can they can hurt you on the feet that’s
a problem already and you have other
people that will take you down and then
proceeded to mess up your day on the
ground so the idea of grappling is this
very important then he have fighters
like NSS Silva Nick Diaz who while of
course having rests on themselves
they’re experts on the ground with
submission and they’re experts was
striking so we have to take down an
aspect which is wrestling judo Jiu Jitsu
the ground aspect was jiu-jitsu asam bow
the submissions and the stand-up aspect
boxing kickboxing you need to have two
of the three to be a competitive fighter
at least two of the three to name the
three again the takedown game mmm so
wrestling yes last judo sure sure okay
the ground gain ground fighting so who’s
submission mission so jujitsu Sambo yeah
type thing okay and then strike striking
boxing Muay Thai there’s many different
types it down so many types of ways to
use ground game there’s many types of
ways to use it instead of game as it’s a
broad comparison yeah stand up damage
distance the ability to take someone
down or not be taken down in round and
then the ability to fight or get off the
ground check yeah you definitely need
two of the three and your other third
needs to be you need to have game you
can’t just not have any game at all yeah
right you can’t just be zero on that
aspect that you’re allowed you have to
understand the thirty a lot of force and
that’s just to wreak lera file the thing
that we’re what you said I said it
better than you what that part just
going back to self defense a little
close the book on that one and I’m sure
we’ll talk about it more in the future
but if Dean Lister is attacking me and I
don’t want to engage because I’m a
normal human being that is avoiding
getting into a street fight if you stand
there and raise your hands and square
off with me I should just run away and
then you you either have to be able to
catch me or you know I delay the process
remember yeah
but the minute that you grab hold of me
now I don’t have a choice and now the
running is not a choice
yeah if you want to stand back and you
want to kick me even if you want to stab
me with a knife if you want to stab me
with a knife so you pull out a blade and
you square off with me cool run right
that’s that’s what I’m gonna do is I’m
gonna run those are that daddy that
defense of running works for all the
stand up game for although if you pull
out a baseball bat and you go I’m gonna
beat you down okay cool I’m gonna get
away from you I want to run away from
you because you got a freakin baseball
bat the only time that changes is when
you grab a hold of me or if we’re in
some kind of confined conditions so if
we’re in some kind of a confined
condition well then I can’t run so then
you are gonna get close to me
and now I’m now in both those cases I
need to learn how to grapple I was
saying like the last time if we’re
sitting there that’s each other and
movie theater like it’s gonna be a
problem for you get away from me if
we’re an elevator it’s gonna suck yeah
so yeah these are specific kind of
Hawaii things well it’s a good point
because if you this this goes to say
like my strikes to like if we’re in a
movie theater and you grab a hold of me
like it’s dark and you just grab a hold
of me I didn’t have an opportunity to
try and strike you and you know what
I’ve tried to strike you thousands and
thousands of times over the years you
know I’ve tried to punch you kick you
I’ve gotten through with some but most
of the time I end up in a clinch
situation and you’re putting me on my
back that’s the the reality of it so if
we’re in a movie theater and you decide
you’re gonna attack me and I’m and I
have great striking but it’s dark and
all of a sudden you’ve got my you’ve got
me in a body lock my striking is not
gonna help me right there
this does not mean that I am I’m not
anti striking at all I mean obviously
you have to know how to strike and you
know if you don’t know how to strike at
that’s bad and you should learn because
there are times even in even a
self-defense thing if I decide it can’t
run it doesn’t mean I grab you I’m still
gonna try and punch you and knock you
out right I don’t want to grab you I
don’t to get in a grappling match with
you either just knock you out and walk
away you know talk on that point
striking I mean some of the let’s just
say some of the more well-known and
striking styles do incorporate some type
of grappling such as my time there I
mean they will grab you and and sweep
you and put your oh there we go so so
some of these martial arts have more
than one of these aspects or so I was
just playing of it with a very broad
brush brush about the takedown game
their striking round game but but yeah
if you look at a Muay Thai an actual
more a practitioner who’s well-versed
they will definitely grab you and can
ruin your day is when they when they
clinch you and get your head bent over
and start needing you in the face yeah
that’s that’s gonna Jack you up and yeah
that’s why you need to know striking so
let me ask you this
we’re looking for a jujitsu school never
done jujitsu before what are you looking
forward to Jiu Jitsu school goodness
let’s see besides typical how far with
the gym is let’s put this all behind but
those are important yeah that’s all the
time if you’ve got two schools that are
want one’s a little bit better one’s a
little bit worse but the one that’s
worse is you don’t have to drive very
far – I’m gonna measure that and I’m
gonna take that into consideration
because I don’t know about normal people
but I don’t have a lot of time to be
driving around you know spend 48 minutes
to get to the judicial gym to train for
an hour and then 48 minutes to get home
that’s that’s gonna take a big chunk out
of my day if there’s a place that’s nine
minutes away mmm I might go to the
nine-minute place what about the
facility do you want is it very
important to you that the place has
weights sauna is this kind of stuff
important to you do you value the
traditional school do you want the
school that’s more relaxed do you want
the you know what kind of environment
are you comfortable with what kind of
environment do you want
are you asking me this question yes
hypothetically okay I mean
hypothetically yeah you already know
what kind of school I like because we
have a school that I like you know we
have we built the school that we want to
Train that which is fairly relaxed lots
of facilities always a place to train so
we’ve kind of got an ideal situation
here most people don’t have that
opportunity to have such a good place
under one roof you know most people they
have to kind of pick and choose they got
to go to a
to work out they got to go to a gym for
their jujitsu they got to go to a gym
for their boxing and striking they got
to go they got it they got to mix it up
so we don’t really have that problem but
yeah if that’s someone if that’s
something that’s okey dokey you know we
do both here and oh yeah so one of us
what about the coach um I’ve seen this
before where and some of them are my
friends by the way I won’t say names I
mean very very famous competitors that
will have a gym but thought many of
these gems and they’ll probably come by
the gym twice a year who or something
like that so so the if you have this
world renowned athlete who is not their
teaching specifically is his assistant
teacher teaching well do you know what
kind of style he is do you get along
with his demeanor his teaching style
that’s very important because myself
anyone who’s let’s say an accomplished
or maybe any kind of black belt is gonna
have a different type of teaching style
hmm and not every champion a famous guy
is gonna be a good teacher and there’s
some teachers who were not even really
well renowned but they’re great teachers
yeah peasant the person depends on what
you vibe with yeah yeah I was gonna say
because there’s I thought you were kind
of setting it up for hated the the main
instructors not around so that’s no good
but that’s actually not true at all
there’s some places where the main the
guy that’s on the ground the black belt
or even the brown belt or even the
purple ball that’s on the ground every
day that’s totally into jiu-jitsu that’s
he might be a great instructor and so
you might find that and and you do have
some kind of person that’s overseeing it
that might not be the greatest
instructor so yeah you got to look at
the person that’s there kind of
day-to-day helping you and teaching you
and and then what are your training
partners like I mean if you think about
it there was a long time where I mean I
I learned 90% of my jiu-jitsu from you
right and I had great instructors you
know but I trained with you I wasn’t
trained my instructor when we were at
Fabio’s Fabio’s teaching everyone and
he’s training with everyone and he
definitely taught me a lot but I was
training with you every day and you were
the one that was like telling me hey
don’t do this do that you know so you
got to look at your training part what
are your
training partners like at your gym or
fob use to kick us off the mat you have
no social life dr. Felix
we have that here too you got like
little cliques of guys and they train
with their group and and their we
getting really they get really really
good because they have a little core
group of guys they’re trained with all
the time yeah you know some this
happened recently of someone I’ve been
training a friend of mine he’s a retired
cop mm-hm and one of the places closer
to where he lives he went there to try
it out and he said it was just it was
kind of a bully environment and that’s
not really high I trained my guys my
girls so that wasn’t for him now for
someone else that might be looked at as
competitive nearly cool so it’s all
about perception I mean that I would
never say that that plays a pretty good
head instructor by the way but wasn’t
for him so I think if someone goes in
actually if the instructor the school
didn’t know you were from the town that
you were at I’m not really saying to lie
but just one let’s say you wouldn’t want
to pay for a day pass you’re just you’re
just looking around and don’t really
don’t really let them know you’re from
that city so you don’t get the sales
tactic you just get to try it out see
what you think you paid the day pass or
whatever if there’s several more than
one one option you see what school you
vibe with in my opinion that’s that’s a
good way to start yeah and there’s not
really too much of a threat of someone
being a fraud anymore just a straight-up
fraud ways to be there were I’m a black
belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and really
they’ve never they’re not a black belt
they haven’t trained they really don’t
have much game and there are new tires
if you type in fake black belt on
YouTube I mean there’s there’s examples
oh and what’s funny
I guess it’s comical you get the guy who
obviously off camera was caught with
some BS and now on camera he’s like why
I don’t want to roll and because to
someone who’s done jujitsu you really
cannot fake that you just can’t even if
you’re strong athletic you could
actually look like when you walk around
you can get fit you know in Brazil those
guys who get fake well it’s actually
real cauliflower ear but they actually
damage their ears on purpose
just so they look like like a real tough
fighter but they’re not fighting
that actually happens in really yeah I
have seen Brazil girls and don’t notice
like your ears different picture so
there I mean maybe they get you a
plastic surgery for that in seriously I
don’t know but I’ve seen it in Brazil
where that that’s happened a few times
although most guys don’t do that most
guys would call for Brazil there’s a
reason to have it I bet your cauliflower
here is fake yeah that’s gonna be next
good insult in Brazil I’ll figure out
how to use that yeah there’s there’s a
and the whole idea like the old school
idea of like of being a fake black belt
in some random martial art thing that
never really gets tested didn’t it crazy
bro you post a lot of these on your
Instagram like the fake the fake what is
there’s not like when someone yeah
they’re glass they’re Chi out of their
palm and like five guys fall to the
ground flailing they’re funny but but
really just like he’s in psychology
hypnotism type thing I’ve heard that
before that there’s there’s a
willingness to want to blend in with the
other people around you and acceptance I
don’t know or maybe it’s weakness I
don’t know you know this kind of stuff
can be dangerous because okay for
assault defense training I do have
students that come in especially
sometimes females who just want to learn
salt defense and of course they really
should learn grappling and continue
doing it it’s hard to learn grappling in
five days but their workshops we do and
they they help they’re better than
they’re good launchpad there for a
training career exactly for anyone male
female whatever because if anybody
thinks you’re gonna get good at fighting
in five days you’re wrong that’s just
wrong it’s like trying to get good at
playing guitar in five days or trying to
get good at playing chess in five days
it’s not gonna happen
Chuck what do you think about these in
the magazines and when you see umm maybe
she’ll US Army Ranger hand and combat
deadly machine in five days yeah or
money-back guarantee
yeah that’s it’s gotta be like cringe
yeah do those things still exist I’ve
seen a few of them not as much as before
as magazines don’t really exist as much
as they used to but like back in the day
soldier of fortune oh yeah and and just
and like black belt magazine and there
were some legit things in there just
like there was legit things in in
soldier of fortune I mean soldier of
fortune did
awesome the interviews back in the day
and Bly like you were were you in the
cover of black belt magazine grappling
several times I thought you went to
cover a black belt one time yeah yeah I
think it was so there was like a legit
there was like legit things in there but
then yeah there’d be advertisements in
there Navy SEAL Ranger and the funny
thing is when those guys said they
trained Navy SEALs it was probably true
yeah because in the SEAL Teams we would
hire people to come in and see what they
had you know like oh what’s your system
let’s see what you got let’s see if it’s
effective or an ineffective and so it’s
probably the truth but it’s an altered
truth oh here’s what I saw recently a
few weeks ago it was one of those
YouTube commercials were you we have to
wait five seconds oh yeah the next good
you wanted to watch it because they said
it said he is he has our 400 bar fights
to his name and I’m like son I’m gonna
watch it now and he is in two tours of
Iraq and he’s a Army Ranger is something
army something and I’m like okay see his
secret to win any bar fight and I’m like
okay so that does exist something yes it
just was a different form am i for some
reason I didn’t buy it but I I saw that
as an advertisement yeah exist jiu-jitsu
instructor just to say this for the
thousandth time your jujitsu instructor
is not God or a God of any form so if
they were walking around they just been
training jiu-jitsu longer than you you
know that’s just the way it is so if
they’re trying to treat you like you’re
a serf on their on their giant land and
you owe them like that’s not a cool
relationship out of the gate to have
with an instructor your instructor
should be cool and there’s all kinds of
good instructors all over the place now
I mean jiu-jitsu so widespread now
compared to when we started it’s
ridiculous I have seen a few times where
the senior belts will look down upon the
the more junior belts yeah but not at
the more legit schools it gives me a few
times I always think that so when when I
beat someone in jujitsu I just think
well I’ve just been training longer than
yeah and when someone beats me I’m like
hey cool you’ve been trained in longer
than me they got lucky you can get lucky
in jiu-jitsu for sure you know someone
makes a mistake and you can get lucky
that that happens it happens less yeah
but it can definitely happen now this is
an interesting subject in my mind some
people do you think that there’s some
people obviously there’s some people
that are naturally inclined to be good
grapplers you are a mutant who is
genetically predisposed almost
engineered to be a dominant grappler of
all sorts of jiu-jitsu
Essam bow of wrestling you’re kind of
naturally predisposed your frame your
mind everything is sort of geared
towards as if you were designed from the
ground up to be a incredible grappler
right maybe and maybe that’s keys no no
I mean that’s factually the case if you
look at if you if if I was to try and
design a grappler I would I would pretty
much make you right I mean right I mean
you’ve got like you’re you got this
weird Fleck for as strong as you aren’t
as flexible as you are that’s a weird
combination right your pain tolerance is
very very high your foot but also part
of is just your mental your your mental
understanding of jiu-jitsu and then on
top of that you’re created your
creativity with grappling it’s all like
this weird combination that makes sort
of a mutant so you’re on the extreme my
mind you’re on the extreme end of built
for grappling I would say that types of
learners there’s audio-based learners as
visual based learners and as the
kinesthetic / tactile based learner’s
I’m definitely the third the last
category so that helps in grappling also
the type of strength it’s not it’s not
as explosive as would be needed in
football I mean I was okay at football
oh but if I grab the guy I would even
leave it arm tackles like I I dive with
more arm grab behind I get him nothing
every time but I would do that but I
couldn’t dive as far as the other guy
see I was fast off the line as a
linebacker so for that sport it’s a
different type of strength different
type of explosiveness of course is a lot
of overlap and of course you train with
someone like Randy Couture he’s got that
grip when he has you you’re in trouble
I’m kind of similar to that as far as
women grab someone on this hard for them
to get away so in the realm of grappling
I mean you could say who’s fast or
strong and someone who’s heavier who’s
lighter but really the higher level
grapplers have that amount of was it
prerequisite I gotcha I gotcha type of
strength but then if you go too far with
that like some wrestlers don’t convert
well over to Jitsu because they don’t
have the they don’t have enough like
medium twitch right they’re just too
explosive their gas out yeah we see in
wrestling that pace is super intense but
it’s six minutes that’s a miserable hard
they’re hard six minutes I mean that’s
his own sport it’s almost like comparing
sprinting versus the quarter-mile versus
the five mile versus them area even know
the hundred meter versus the 200 meter
those are different athletes yeah and
then the and then the hundred meter
versus the vs. the 800 is definitely a
different app athlete and yes you go to
you look at someone that does the
hundred meter dash for a living versus
someone that runs a marathon for a
different for a living those two people
are those are two different types of
humans so there’s a difference like I
would say I would say well maybe you
could disagree with me but you’re you
have a better body style for submission
grappling than you do for straight
wrestling yes would you yeah because I
don’t know why but back when I was in
high school I was doing in the offseason
greco-roman wrestling with freestyle
wrestling and with samba and that was
the first time I I was doing submission
there was people there was one one of my
friends he could beat me in Greco and
the same day he beat me I don’t know
eight to four I submitted him on 30
seconds with what’s in Samba I submitted
my 30 seconds he couldn’t last more than
30 seconds with me it was submission I
don’t know why he could beat me in
greco-roman wrestling yeah see that’s
what I’m saying and part
that is your brain part of that is your
brain your brain is more your brain has
a has a innate understanding of
submission grappling and I don’t know if
that’s learned I don’t even think it’s
learned though I think it’s just your
part of it’s learned obviously but
you’re born with you know I had a
conversation with my daughter that that
and she would say I like wrestling’s
more than jiu-jitsu which you know of
course broke my heart
but at the same time it’s cool but when
I asked her why and this is when she was
like maybe in her sophomore year of
wrestling and I would ask I asked her
why oh no you know I was in freshman
year I asked her why why do you lie like
what are you talking about why do you
you know you’ve been doing jiu-jitsu for
a long long time and all of a sudden you
like wrestling more and she said
wrestling is simpler yeah all you have
to do in wrestling is I take the person
down and put their back on the mat and I
jiu-jitsu there’s all kinds of these
other things going on you know you got
to think about the half guard and the
and the folk and I know that wrestling
has all those technical things too at
the higher level when you look at what
you get in introduced to there’s a lot
more to think about if you take all
white belt in jujitsu and a white belt
in wrestling the white belt and
wrestling you’re like okay this is what
you need to do put their back on the mat
the white belt in jujitsu you have to
teach explain all kinds of different
positions and everything till does it
the elbow the wrist the knee the ankle
the neck what right upside down inverted
bachelors upside boy yeah it’s a there’s
so many ways to I said this roughly now
I compared striking with submissions
strikings like a musical instrument
rhythm demo combinations whatever of
course this pitch tone whatever but
grappling is more like tying knots
together if you in and by the way each
each arm and leg is a rope so you give
me four or five ropes and how many ways
can I tie them together I mean it’s an
infinite by the way how long is the rope
I mean infinite so it’s just completely
different you get an expert professional
mountain climber they can tie knots
behind their back and lie in folded and
but Irish person can’t do that so
there’s different type of talent mental
wise as far as who’s gonna be better at
what so so yeah the grappling is just
its own type of thing but I think
everyone could benefit from doing it
yeah and the other thing is I described
you has happened like a good body style
for jujitsu but I think the biggest
advantage in jujitsu is a long lanky
do you agree just on paper yes but
marcelo garcia is not lanky so so so so
Ricardo Arona is not linked yeah
he’s a little short on me but ha ha drew
Gracie is rajab AC is keen cornices yeah
yeah let’s see yeah yeah Andre Gavin’s
not linking right right so so what’s
what I think is really cool about combat
sports in general is that there is a way
to make your body type into a world
champion yeah yeah it’s or two examples
of my body type but for boxing it it was
always considered except for like either
go to a freezer Rocky Marciano Mike
Tyson I mean look at these every weights
now I mean the Klitschkos well not right
now most of them are lanky guys but then
who’s the guy
Joshua is gonna top by Ruiz yeah yeah
nice was not linked so that uh how tall
is Ruiz am I sure I don’t know six foot
I don’t know really well yeah cuz
Tyson’s my height weight when Tyson’s
like might yeah he’s 511 I met him
several times yeah he’s he’s 511 he
fought at 225 good fight mental if he
knew me knew my name coming out yeah but
man he would get inside on someone his
father owned those Africa he would use
his body to make his style strongest so
hard paper yes you’re right this mean
more lanky fighters were champions but I
don’t know in some ways you get you get
the guy who is five foot five with no
neck it’s really hard to get a guilty on
that guy that’s true
so if you find a way to use your style
there’s some people I know some people
that like there they’re just not gonna
be good at striking they’re not going to
be good at takedowns right like people
have a natural thing and I think it’s
sorry I should say I think it’s more
mental than it is physical yeah yeah
like it’s like you see high school kids
arresting cuz I obviously I got a ton of
rest at high school wrestling
tournaments because well my daughter’s
graduated but just my son just wrestling
wrestling wrestling all the time and you
spend you spend the weekend I would
spend the weekend at two wrestling
tournaments so I’d see a hundred
wrestling tournaments and you can see
some people there just some kids just
aren’t good they want to take down and
even though they might not be like I
would know the kids on my own kids teams
like I know how long they’ve been
wrestling for some of them they want to
get the takedown they’re good at getting
the takedown the other ones are good at
sprawl it’s like you get a mentality for
what you’re good at
yeah yeah and then you work within those
bounds too if you’re smart you’ll
strengthen your weaknesses right true
but you won’t you’ll strengthen your
weakness but you won’t try and rely on
them you know what I mean yeah you won’t
try and you won’t go out and focus on
your weight you do this you’ll go out
against a wrestler and you’ll try and
out wrestle a wrestler I don’t know why
you’ll go out against the jiu-jitsu guy
and just trying out Jitsu at jujitsu yet
I face one of my old rivals but he’s a
friend of mine Jean J barrel
then again he wasn’t really trying to
take me down and so it was kind of a I
pulled card on him like at least 12
times and that’s the wrong guy to pull
garden yesterday but anywhere in the
world that’s the wrong guy but I don’t
get booed and stuff like that so I don’t
know I guess default the rest of it is
better than nothing I don’t know
yeah I’ve been stubborn that way maybe
that’s can be bad in some ways another
thing about your brain you have a very
open mind when it comes to jujitsu when
it comes to grappling when it comes to
fighting but you have a very open mind I
think that’s a sign of humility because
you’re the person that doesn’t say oh I
I know the best way to do this do it my
way only this is the best even when you
teach you say hey look this is how I do
and sometimes you say because you
my games are well you like Jocko does
this it’s different here’s how it’s
different here’s why it’s different what
is it where did you originally learn
that you needed to keep an open mind
when it came to jujitsu well I think
that there’s so many comparisons so for
anyone who’s listening who’s practiced
judo initially they’re gonna be a little
offended but in the end they’re gonna
take it as a compliment
I always thought because in high school
wrestling you just get down low and take
down these judo guys they can’t they
can’t stir they can’t stop it well these
are not Olympic athletes first of all a
second of all they’re in a higher stance
but when I started fighting and you’re
at a higher stance because you can’t be
down in a super low stance in a fight
you’ll get kicked in the head yeah so
you have to be higher to fight correctly
well now those throws work from the
fighting stance so I was like I was an
idiot thinking this stuff doesn’t work
it was just close my eyes like 17-18
everything can work leg locks I was told
for many years this is I’m wasting my
time I’m wasting my time even Jerry
Jerry Costa told me he was on the mat
when I won Abu Dhabi in 2003 and
Brasilia he said thank God you didn’t
listen to me so anything can work it’s
just if you feel you’re actually going
down the wrong path you pretty much know
you are well then listen yourself but if
you have a pretty good hunch not just a
hunch to say verified feeling of truth
that you’re going the right direction
there’s some kind of belief in yourself
but listen to that did you ever question
yourself did you have a question like
the the road that you were taking cuz
you were taking a road that was not had
not been traveled I knew I had to find
the best way to take that road I knew I
don’t know why I didn’t I never doubted
and I got frustrated few times he was
easy for me to follow you down that road
because I felt the repercussions of what
was happening in other words I know that
you could submit me with heel hooks with
foot locks I knew that I mean I felt it
happening over and over again so for me
it was like hey if you’re if there’s
anyone in the world that says that this
stuff doesn’t work or that once it
doesn’t believe that this stuff is gonna
work go roll with Dean and find out what
it feels like to get your freakin ankle
because it doesn’t feel good yeah a B or
C or D C so that so you you all that
must have been a little bit of a
feedback loop for you though because you
would catch people and you go okay that
most people when they do a move the
first time even the first ten times it
doesn’t work do you remember do you
remember doing foot locks or heel hooks
where it didn’t work and you and you
just saw that there’s a better way to do
it or you saw the mistake that you made
I’ve lost tournaments because of that
but I realize you know what I know
there’s a way to make this work
I know there’s a way to make this work
you know if we look at the early us UFC
you’ll see one two and four horse Gracie
you know you open everyone’s minds and
jujitsu what’s a submission no you know
people were thinking what you did to is
the way and by the way it it’s the way
it’s this it’s our way it’s what we do
primarily but then the wrestlers started
doing real well Mark Coleman was coming
in and Dan Severn was coming in and I
mean now people are thinking wow
wrestling is the way it’s the way and
then I was sudden yet you had more Smith
head kick knockout and your whole kick
boxers that actually works
yes it works it all works so the thing
is imagine if if if we all just think
this works now this work not really it
all works
it all works all the time you’re gonna
find crazy exceptions to every rule
you’re gonna find some people to have
incredible resistance to punches but
they can’t take you know you could choke
them out one second and there’s some
there’s some strange guys I met where
Hardy took that guy Joel oh yeah yeah he
actually let you like I could make him
tap with a blanket rope it was hard with
his heart yeah he would actually people
get their arms tired
choking him with a rear naked choke yeah
that’s a bizarre in I think he kind of
liked it I don’t know I’m not sure he
had a very relaxed look on his face and
then he would get out and you were tired
he would beat you
yeah and he actually won his mixed
martial arts fights that way he I was
even corny I didn’t know he was fighting
I was just there by coincidence Joel and
he’s there he’s yeah can he I cornered
anyone out there to get the guy down let
him get his back yeah let the guy choke
him they got tired turnaround and
submitted over this is just crazy I mean
there’s some characters out there you
know so what we’re in though you know
that’s that’s extreme that’s the only
guy I’ve ever met my life like that so
yeah that’s something is so that idea
for me the idea of having an open mind
of looking at everything this is
probably one of the most profound things
that I took away from jiu-jitsu and a
lot of its because I was just watching
you listening to other people you know
you’d come and you’d say that’s what
this person look like we don’t see a
video or we’d go to a seminar an you’d
be like that what this person said here
made a lot of sense this didn’t this did
here’s why and you’d like break it down
for me but you always had an open mind
about not thinking that you knew
everything even right now even right now
you’ll be like oh I saw this thing I saw
a tournament did you see this match and
you say this is what the person did this
is an improvement over what I used to do
or it’s it’s another angle from what I
do right now and here’s what you could
do to counter it man you were going over
some counters with me the other day and
and it’s just crazy you know it’s crazy
that you sit there and look at it you go
ok this is a great system what this
person is doing here but here’s how you
could counter these things here’s a
simple movement here’s a simple present
position that puts that thing down so
that attitude that you have from
jiu-jitsu which is I don’t know
it’s a humility I think that’s probably
one of the things when I talk about you
being a mutant that’s designed for
grappling if you didn’t have that kind
of open mind you would have locked into
the same mentality that everyone else
locked into when they started jiu-jitsu
which is hey this is the way you do it
these are the moves there are no other
moves these are the moves and you from
day one we’re looking at it going oh no
there’s other possibilities there’s one
that recently I was putting in this into
words and my past probably five seminars
I told the story I’ll get a little
technical but not too down
one road doing the lay clock where I’m
sitting I go straight back well that
used to be how everyone did it back in
93 94 but everyone was getting mounted
he went straight back the person would
mount you over and over and over so the
Brazilians were like hey listen we’re
gonna fall to our side now
I made the Mount really hard to
implement as a defense for about two
years matter of fact I probably won 20
or 30 matches falling to no more
fall into my side even there like five
or six for Locke someone mad one day I
used to get these all the time and like
one triangle I used to go and when my
division than the absolute it was those
were good times in LA but so the
Brazilians were fallen to the side with
the footlok to stop them out it took
about two years to where like I said Leo
Zinio Vieira guys like him will just
jump over your foot because you fall to
the side well because you fall decide
they can now jump over your foot if you
fall backwards well now they can mount
you so what’s the solution how about you
fix where your foots at so you don’t
have to fall your side and you go
straight back and so people just I’ve
seen that they all just fought your side
for the side for as well as soon as they
fall to the side I’m already over the
foot but if if I grab your foot and
don’t fall on my side but my other foot
is is rearranged now I don’t have to
follow my side so simple cover-ups
simple adaptations a simple simple
simple like why did you before they
decide how about we don’t have to do
that anymore
it’s that simple we can like restart the
structure of the technique and make it
better in the long run it does make it
does work yeah and that’s the kind of
thing you’ve been breaking down for well
as long as I’ve known you man
big difference hey man cool I think
that’s a good place to call it for today
Dean your main social media right now is
East aghanim Instagram where you post
random random things it’s most random
things no I just
yeah you post random things so if you
want to check out Dean at Dean Lister
that’s his Instagram and the industry
BJJ oh is that what it is yeah okay so
at Dean Lister BJJ yes okay there you go
so if you want to check that out um I’m
at chocolate woman come on on Instagram
and Twitter and Facebook at that if you
need a key for you to do two experiences
go to origin main calm and I have
another podcast called jaakko podcast
where I talk about war life and life and
getting after it anyways thanks for
listening we’ll see you next time

100 thoughts on “Grounded Podcast #1 w/ Dean Lister: Solve Life Problems w/ Jiu Jitsu. How to Find a School.”

  1. I'm from Brazil. I've been thinking for a long time about pushing myself to practice jiu-jitsu. And just like that, i stumble accross this video. Tomorrow morning i'll start changing my life. Thanks guys, amazing content!

  2. I prefer a kung fu angle it's more diverse than just ground or stand up all aspects of fighting are intergrated

  3. Wow, this is super unique and engaging and interesting and clever and not already done on the internet a million times. Good!

  4. You're correct Jocko. This video, or at least the first 9 minutes, is of a lower quality than Jocko Podcasts. It has a much lower information per minute content. You're awesome, but I don't have time for this, even ask background to doing something else .

  5. As I’m leaving my house to go teach kids jiu jitsu, I’m looking for a podcast to listen to on the way there and this is the first video in my recommended.


  6. Because of Jocko i started BJJ 3 years ago. Im now half year into my blue belt and did more than 10 competitions. Thanks man! Life is good.

  7. Hard to say this without sounding like I'm mocking someone's hobby, which is not my intention but BJJ has become a cult. People have become so arrogant that hey don't even bother specifying what jiu-jitsu they are talking about? Aikijujutsu? BJJ? German-British jujutsu? The latter has been recreated in extended Scandinavia under a different name and uses strikes, kicks, grappling, weapon defenses, multiple opponent defense, security applications etc. just like krav maga. Back in the 80's or earlier they were already addressing fighting injured. No matter what your hobby of choice is, be it Argentinian tango, judo, breakdancing or archery, you're not going to be an expert in it on your first day and you're also not going to be an untouchable superhuman ten years later. Just look at the people who are engaging in hobbies that are hyped to be tougher and better than other hobbies (subtly but still): children, women, athletically untalented men etc. Some martial arts clubs have 50% women. How many of these women are fit to be firemen or even paramedics? Yet if their belt rank is high enough, there will be men foaming about how everyone should defer to them now. Imagine being a 15 year old boy or younger and seeing middle-aged men boast about "muh hobby da best!" muh hobby da best!" It will have an impact on your malleable young mind and might lead you to grinding your teeth practicing a hobby, wasting your time doing something you absolutely hate.

  8. I know by jiu jitsu he means BJJ but it's nice that he keeps it to Jiu Jitsu as there is alot to be learnt from even Japanese Jiu Jitsu.

  9. Believe it or not I rolled will Dean in Belfast when visited our club, back in 2010. His strength was absolutely incredible, I was about 170lbs and he went so easy on me but he's very humble.

  10. College lectures are online now (Coronavirus) so I'm going home – I can't go to the jiu jitsu gym near my college.
    I'll figure something out.

  11. Hey Jocko, have your read The Book of Five Rings? Its a manual on strategy written by Miyamoto Musashi, said to be the greatest duelist Japan has ever seen.

    He wrote similar ideas as you said. You can even just read some quotes from him to get an idea.

    “It is imperative to master the principles of the art of war and learn to be unmoved in mind even in the heat of the battle.” Miyamoto Musashi

    There’s also a pentology about his life written by Eiji Yoshikawa.

  12. You are a philosopher King. Warrior poet. Compassionate empathetic human being. And quite simply THE MAN. Safe to say have a harmless crush lol. Ty for saying what I needs to hear when I needed to hear it.

  13. Counting down the hours until War on the Mat's later today! Submish only, back to back Holls. Whatever the outcome doesn't matter cuz on the exfil from Tranche our primal side is satisfied!
    Started at 287lbs after a few years now walk around at 231lbs. Still fat but far more capable! 😎

  14. I don't have any belts. However, isn't learning like anything else and you really do teach yourself. Even with working out to train the body to be fit to do it? For example, there's no nin jitsu locally here and when there was (the Pennacle) it went away because most people are "fat" and didn't attend. There are online courses to get a black belt… just saying.

  15. There's dvds to build guns. There's sistema dvds kettle bell dvds… what's not to understand what I'm saying?

  16. Recluse for obvious reasons don't want to go in public to be scrutinized by the allowed cops who are in the same classes saying domestics can't! Joe.

  17. When someone makes a mistake in Jiu Jitsu and loses, is it that the opponent got "lucky" or did he/she actually display enough experience to take advantage of that mistake? I wouldn't call it luck, but maybe I'm wrong.(Minute:33:10)

  18. I must say I' m super happy with these podcasts broken up in smaller parts!!! Im converting them with online Youtube to MP3 convertors to listen to them on a Stick in my USB port in my car. The Youtube to MP3 convertors almost all of them stopped converting the over 2 hour videos.

  19. Been training jiu jitsu for about a month now. I wake up sore every single morning but I feel alive. I can feel my body literally changing, I'm noticing my muscles getting more tone. I wake up with bruises all over my arms and forearms, I'm loving it. It's like a reset button every night after training, all the bullshit no longer matters. Best decision ever

  20. 7:22 Thats me, I love BJJ but had to get a hip replacement and stop going. Is there a way to roll with this type of handicap safely….

  21. BJJ causes crippling knee, back and neck injuries for most who train eventually, even casually. You've been lucky Jocko tbh. Any absorbing challenging activity can substitute.

  22. Being a serious person makes it hard to resonate with my peers, im very glad that i can resonate with jocko its a blessing to be able to watch this thank god i dont live in a country that blocks youtube

  23. I'm an expat in the Philippines. Brazilian Jujitzu is not practiced in Negros Oriental here. All the instruction is limited to Manila. And the entirety of the Philippines is ignored. And the markets are lost. I have a 12 year old daughter that I want to involve in the martial arts. What are the best alternatives?

  24. Ive used Sonic Attack to avoid mugging at knife point. Shouted 'F off' three times getting louder. Somehow rocked his confidence and drew eyes onto us. Worked that once. I have heard of other Sonic Defence incidents.

  25. Yes, you do need to have it. Because that's what makes ppl happy. It makes communities stronger, it makes ppl stronger. Bc no one can form a bond with you if you're unreliable. That;s why I used to hate it when schools kept trying to switch goups around the class so no one sits with their friends. They're teaching kids not to build long term friendships. And that's a North America and possible Brtish thing. Its not in line with most ppls instincts.

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